Pesegueiro de libertades

Esta es una conversación que mantuve en un chat con, rochyrock (Siria) , hedgehoginfog (Rusia) , koshii (USA) , forneus (Polonia) , y yo que soy arnadelo (Galicia, España). Está en inglés, así que espero tengáis paicencia para leerlo.
Para mí fue una experiencia muy enriquecedora. Diferentes culturas, nacionalidades y formas de pensar, debatiendo sobre el conflicto, y para mí una forma de afrontarlo y solucionarlo: el diálogo de los pueblos a través del pueblo, sin intermediaros políticos ni religiosos.

rochyrock look people in Palestine die and Arabs haven’t done anything until now, shame
arnadelo what is happening in Palestina is a Genocide
rochyrock 1000 people died until now
arnadelo i saw a documental yesterday, and Palestina looks like a huge prison and a lot of Palestinians migrated to Syria in the 50’s. And a lot of them found a job as University teachers
rochyrock yeah
arnadelo because they had a very good educational system
rochyrock i feel to cry when i see this picture:

arnadelo yes
rochyrock all people in the world should be shame of this picture
rochyrock and look how weak the solders are, he’s afraid from a child!
arnadelo you got a point there! I’ve heard a Palestinian talking in a radio conference, here in Galicia, and he said that althoug there was a lot of changes in the Israel goverment in the last years, Israel has never been in economical crisis, so war=weapons=business=money. And the world stand still and i stand still too
rochyrock it’s a big shame for us, we the Arabs, to see our brothers die and nobody from us help them. You might don’t understand what i mean by shame here….
arnadelo you are my brother too

rochyrock Egypt has a crossing point between Palestine and the goverment there don’t want to let medicine and food go to palestine. How shame is that???!!!! It’s an Arabic country also! Thanks we are all brothers. Egypt acts like Israel!
arnadelo I didn’t hear of that, but yes is a shame. It must be for economical reasons
rochyrock We all believe it’s because religious reasons
arnadelo Anyway, what we are watching on tv here in Spain, is that Palestinians are terrorists, so the media is manipulating everything
rochyrock i know, but i think people now can get more info from the internet and can know the truth
arnadelo and the question is, if you were Palestinian, what would you do?
hedgehoginfog Can you provide an actual link saying that all the Palestinians as a whole, not HAMAZ in particularly, are tettorists?
rochyrock what Israel is doing there is the biggest mistake in the world, they said that they want to stop “terrorists” to enter Isreal, but i think nothing now can prevent any attacks on Israel. What do expect from a child who saw his mother die to do in the future?? Of course to revenge!
hedgehoginfog No.
arnadelo Terrorism is used as a key to conquer a country
rochyrock like what happend in Iraq
hedgehoginfog It’s the wrong expectation from a child born in the Western World. I wouldn’t have taken revenge for a killed mother.
rochyrock hedgehoginfog: what do you mean?
hedgehoginfog The Western World in its main concepts is based on the ideas of Christianity. Vengeance as seen in Christianity is a sin.
hedgehoginfog I’m not a Christian but I still woulnd’t have taken revenge for a killed relative.
rochyrock Our culture is not like western culture, arnadelo might understand that. The parents in our culture are blessed
hedgehoginfog I -can- theoretically understand people who do that but it’s not that common in the Western World as in the Arab World.
hedgehoginfog rockyrock: I understand you, and I respect that.
rochyrock you said the Arab World. but hey there are Christians here also!
hedgehoginfog yes. I know.
rochyrock Arab != Muslim
hedgehoginfog The idea of the Arab World is an idiomatic expression
rochyrock Arab = Muslims + Christians + Jews
hedgehoginfog look up wikipedia on that
rochyrock wikipedia isn’t trusted in everything btw
rochyrock hedgehoginfog: what’s your religion?
hedgehoginfog Wikipedia is trusted as much as the Internet is.
arnadelo so do we consider Israel as Western or Arab world?
rochyrock me i think it’s cancer. I know i’ll get so many attacks on me right now
koshii Israel isn’t Arab :s
hedgehoginfog rockyrock: moderately militant atheist. Also I’m of Jewish origin by ethnicity.
rochyrock we don’t have problems with jews
arnadelo I’m Christian Catholic by ethnicity
hedgehoginfog Israel is generally considered mostly as part of the Western World.
koshii There is a Jew problem
rochyrock we have problems with anybody occupy our land
hedgehoginfog http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Jews
hedgehoginfog The term was occasionally used in the early 20th century, mainly by Arab nationalists,…
koshii I kid.
arnadelo so if in western world vengeance is seen as sin, why do they respond to the attcaks,?
koshii It would be stupid not to? It’s war?
hedgehoginfog It’s not done out of vengeance
koshii It’s not seen as a sin :s
rochyrock vengeance is also seen as sin in Islam and BIG SIN, but can’t prevent people to do that. All their families are die!!!
koshii Yeah, it’s self defense
forneus Western world is religious only superficially.
hedgehoginfog It’s somebody’s malicious with to benefit from the misfortunes of other people. It’s not vengeance. I don’t think Mr. Bush personally has anything against the Iraqi people as a nation.
forneus I don’t think he could even point iraq on a map
hedgehoginfog forneus: Yes. But most of its concepts are based on the doctrine of Christ. See ‘Common Law’ for example
koshii Of course not, he’s tried to fix their problems at the same time helping the US
forneus hedgehoginfog: I would say the doctrine of Christ are based on the common law.
koshii but a lot of people don’t seem to understand that
rochyrock koshii: of course he did, he killed most of the civils there!
rochyrock oh please
rochyrock koshii: are you from this world??
hedgehoginfog The idea of ‘ratioanalism’ which is one of the most distinct characteristics of the Western World would have been impossible without Christianity even though it, to a great extent, is opposed to it.
forneus hedgehoginfog: I meant that Western world doesn’t really care about Christian rules even if they say so.
hedgehoginfog Jesus was a very wise person — he didn’t tell people how to rule inside society.
arnadelo The only religion in western world is money
hedgehoginfog He didn’t point out to a certain model or policy.
hedgehoginfog No.
rochyrock arnadelo: agree 110%
hedgehoginfog That’s definitely not true.
rochyrock hedgehoginfog: where are you from?
hedgehoginfog Russia.
arnadelo Spain
arnadelo Most of the decisions in the western world are economical decisions
rochyrock 100% true
hedgehoginfog Yes.
forneus hedgehoginfog: I strongly disagree with what you say. Rationalism developd in the Enlightenment as a movement opposed to any religioin.
hedgehoginfog The question is that what you imply by that term.
forneus Jesus wasn’t that smart person.
rochyrock America supports Isreal just because most of the multibillions are jews and control America’s economic
arnadelo And because of the situation of Israel in the map
rochyrock sure
rochyrock We say that “Israel is America’s dog in the middle east”
arnadelo where are the petrol resources?
hedgehoginfog forneus: YES. But, it wasn’t born in the Islamic world, it wasn’t born in any other civilization. It was born as an opposition to Christianity indeed! That’s why I’m saying it would have been impossible without it like knowing what ‘good’ is impossible without knowing what ‘evil’ is.
koshii hedgehoginfog, now that I think about it, you’re right
forneus hedgehoginfog: Yeah, if you put it this way then I agree with you.
rochyrock hedgehoginfog: Arab Christians belive that jesus is Arabic and was borned in Palestine
koshii >_>
hedgehoginfog Really?
forneus However, I’m not sure whether Rationalism really needed Christianity.
hedgehoginfog I didn’t know that. It’s interesting.
forneus We can only speculate.
hedgehoginfog yes.
rochyrock Palestine is important for: Muslims + Jews+ Christians
rochyrock The chrisitans here don’t follow Rome, they follow the Church in Palestine
arnadelo Palestine is only important to prolong a war so more and more weapons are sended to the region in order to control the Petrol Resources
hedgehoginfog Rationalism needed people not take revenge for their killed relatives. I’m from Russia. Does that mean I should kill Germans as my grandfather did. Germans set foot on my land and independently of the evil the Soveits brought to other nations I could theoretically want to start to kill them.
rochyrock We “all” think that Palestine problem is 100% becouse of religious reasons for the Jewws
hedgehoginfog but that wouldn’t bring any good to either me or those whom I would have killed.
forneus hedgehoginfog: true, true
arnadelo rockyrock not me
rochyrock arnadelo: i ment arabs
hedgehoginfog What I think of that problem in Palestine is that obvious fact that people there are dying in large numbers. And that’s very sad.
forneus *meant
rochyrock arnadelo: and the petrol is something to do with the west
rochyrock hedgehoginfog: agree
arnadelo hedgehoginfog agree
hedgehoginfog
rochyrock this disccussion is no good for them
arnadelo anyway it was good for all of us
rochyrock yeah
rochyrock but it’s strange that no body here lives in Israel!
arnadelo ok, i’m going to copy this conversation and write it on my blog, any problem? I’m going to bed
rochyrock i though that many people will attack me just because i spoke about Israel!! Good to know that western people now look at sources other than the media
hedgehoginfog arnadelo: +100000000000000000000000000000000000000
hedgehoginfog arnadelo: That’s exactly what I was thinking about just before you wrote that
rochyrock hedgehoginfog: bed?
arnadelo yes
hedgehoginfog nope
rochyrock blog?
hedgehoginfog copying-pasting the log into a blog
hedgehoginfog yeah
arnadelo http://pesegueiro.blogsome.com
arnadelo is in spanish
rochyrock Spanish!
arnadelo so sorry
arnadelo It was great to talk with all of you. I will come back
hedgehoginfog just for the record where you all from again: rockyrock, arnadelo and forneus
arnadelo spain
hedgehoginfog and koshii
rochyrock Syria
arnadelo and you hedgehoginfog
hedgehoginfog Russia.
forneus hedgehoginfog: Poland
koshii It’s a solid base of morals, It’s something people can believe in. Without some form of structure I think a lot more people would have a lot more regrets
rochyrock see you later guys, nice to talk with you
koshii The ideas are meant to help people
koshii Did I say something after ‘>_>?’
arnadelo nice to talk with you rockyrock
rochyrock arnadelo: you too